Hannah New talks about her new role as a sexually fluid black marketeer on “Black Sails”
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Unfortunately with mainstream television programming, we’re used to being more disappointed than not when it comes to depiction of lesbian characters and how their sexuality is defined. (Case in point, the recent news on Fox’s Backstrom.)
And while Starz’s new pirate drama Black Sails doesn’t define the sexual orientation of characters of Eleanor (Hannah New) and Max (Jessica Parker Kennedy) even though they have a steamy sex scene in the first episode, that’s part of the point given the period of the series.
Hannah New
Here’s how Eleanor is described in the promotional materials for the show:Beautiful and determined, Eleanor is the daughter of Richard Guthrie, the wealthiest black marketer in the Bahamas and the chief fence/supplier for the many pirate crews of New Providence Island. Left by her father to oversee all his dealings with the pirates in Nassau, she owns and operates the tavern on Nassau’s main street. Eleanor wields considerable influence, leading her to form a pact with Captain Flint that will either bring her dream of complete independence to fruition, or doom it entirely.Max is described as “seductive, cunning, and coolheaded” and works as a prostitute in the brothel. We get a hint of the possible trouble between Eleanor and Max in the promo materials for the show, which warn, “when her aspirations and Eleanor’s begin to conflict, their relationship, and Max’s well-being, take a dark turn for the worse…”
During the recent Television Critics Association Winter Press Tour, the cast and creative team were present and AfterEllen asked co-creator Jon Steinberg about the sexuality of New’s Eleanor, to which he replied, “It was really important to us that, if we were going to explore this world, that gender had to be a part of that, well beyond just stock wenches and the occasional cross dressing pirate; that there were women in this world, and they had very specific challenges, and they had very specific expectation,” he explained. “I think both through Eleanor and through Max, Jessica Parker Kennedy’s character, and through Anne Bonny, that Clara Paget plays, we wanted to explore three very different women…[and] how they dealt with the expectations that either they were living under or that they were in the process of shedding and figuring out a way to exist in a world that men ran but in which they had something to contribute.”
After the panel we sat down with New to ask in more detail about the role, the intimate scenes with Kennedy and what she thinks about society’s need to label sexuality.
Hannah New: It oscillates between pure excitement and just so happy that finally everyone’s going to see it and start to engage with these characters in this world and these story lines. And then terror seeps in as well but I think more than anything the excitement is taking over at this point and it’s going to be interesting because we’re going to be back filming and we’ll be in a little bubble again when it all releases. It’s going to be really interesting and I’m sure I’m going to be on the phone being like, “What’s it like? What’s everyone doing? Are they enjoying it?”
AE: Well, talk to me about your approach to Eleanor and, of course, everybody always wants definitions like, “Is she gay? Bi? What is she?”
HN: I think that’s what’s really interesting about this world is that when you break down those barriers, you break down the barriers between gender and sexuality, people can be much more fluid and she doesn’t have to conform to any kind of societal norm. She’s not married and I think outside of marriage, there was very little legislation about sexuality outside of marriage. It didn’t really exist, of course.
I think it’s really interesting when you look into the history of sexuality and you look at how lesbianism became defined and how it became legislated. I suddenly realized that, “Wow, I’ve got this opportunity to play this woman who is growing and developing without those constraints, without that obligation to be part of anything, to be part of a group.” She is completely on the margins of all of that.
I think it’s really interesting because I remember I read an article by Tony Kushner [playwright, Angels In America] about labeling and I think that’s something that he’s explored so much in his work. When I suddenly realized that someone like that is going to be put on television, I thought, “That’s a huge breakthrough” and I think it’s really important, especially at a time now where we’re starting to talk about equality in real terms. We’re starting to talk about legislation and making it fair and I think that’s really progressive.
Some people might feel that by not defining her, it kind of draws away from her identifying with a particular group but I actually think that it’s a stronger move to be a fluid woman whose sexuality is completely her own and she’s in control of it and she doesn’t have to answer to anyone. It’s incredibly empowering. I can’t express how excited I am about it.
AE: What is the journey with Max since we do see them together in the first episode?
HN: I think what’s really interesting if you look at any kind of eighteenth century literature, one of a very strong line of female writing was to deal with the romantic letter writing and it was very often between two women. I think that idea that two women could really, really identify it and support each other and that it’s a friendship that does involve love and it does involve affection and it does involve a sexual attraction. I think that’s a really important thing to be known and if you read any of those things, it’s pretty explicit. It’s explicit in a non-titillating…they’re writing to each other. This isn’t for a male audience. Do you know what I mean?
I think that was really an important thing that Jessica and I wanted to get across is that these two women support each other and they have a mutual responsibility towards each other. Their relationship goes really deep and I think that Jessica plays it so beautifully. She’s one of the most generous actresses I’ve ever worked with. I actually have got goose bumps talking about her. I think bringing to light that story is really important and the fact that it doesn’t always work out, I think, is also a very realistic way of portraying this relationship because they are women in men’s world, in a very masculine society. I think they don’t give a shit whether anyone judges them for it. I mean, that’s not the society they live in.
AE: It’s also really freeing, I would guess.
HN: It’s just such a liberating experience and I think it was very important with the scenes that it very much depicted those aspects of their relationship and Max is one of the only people that she can be vulnerable with. She has this hard exterior. I think, Max and also with Scott (Hakeem Kae Kasim), who is her father figure, who is her counsel…and very quickly they are no longer a part of her support network and I think it’s interesting to see how she survives on her own.
The decision she’s made to cast off those people that she so intimately knows and needs is a very interesting…I’ve never really imagined a character that would have such a quick down fall. She goes from being all power and everyone backing her to suddenly having to grapple together a team and this team is nothing compared to the kind of support she had before. It’s a beautiful story and I think as the seasons go on, it has to develop and that history has to be there.
AE: Having talked to actors for a long time, I’ve never heard anybody say a love scene was fun or it was a good time. Is it any easier doing it with a women as opposed to a man? I’m just curious if that’s any different.HN: Do you know what? I find it really interesting. It’s always awkward, obviously, that there’s a crew in the room. But I actually think the way we choreograph scenes and it is choreography basically, is almost like crafting a scripted scene. Every single move has to be like a line. It has to mean something. Nothing is in there for gratuitous reasons. It has to be meaningful and I think that first scene with Max was actually really incredible as we talked about it. Talking about it, you learn so much about a character. Why is it that she at this time of real pain seeks a moment of pleasure? I think that’s very interesting and it ties into so many psychological arguments about why people use their sexuality to act out or to become, to release themselves from a situation. I just hope that, that scene reads that way.
Hannah New and Clara Paget
AE: Speaking of physicality, it’s a demanding role because there’s a lot of action, a lot of fight scenes. You can throw a punch!
HN: Yeah. I got a mean right hook now-a-days.
AE: Does Eleanor have other love interests throughout the season?
HN: Yes. There’s definitely a lot of history with Eleanor and that will become clear as her relationships start to develop. She kind of gets involved in relationships that aren’t necessarily the most advantageous to her but she cannot help it. I think that it’s a very interesting look at someone who, that kind of self-destructive behavior as well, is very interesting to look at as a character and as an actor. It’s tough. There’s things that she does that you think why are you doing this? But obviously as an actor that’s the best challenge.
She does, she uses her sexuality in a way that’s not necessarily manipulative in a way that Max has to use her sexuality. She uses it to kind of inform her own head and her own heart in response to her own feelings of abandonment and I think it’s not always entirely healthy but it’s incredibly real. I think a lot of people will be able to relate to it and likewise the people that she becomes involved with, those scenes, have to be imbued with that history.
AE: With men and women?
HN: Yeah.
AE: Any female acting icons that you look up to and channel? Especially in some of these scenes?
HN: So many. I’m a big film buff so I love people like [director John] Cassavetes and I love Gena Rowlands. She’s so brilliant, isn’t she? I just love those kinds of actresses that you just can’t tell what they’re going to do from one minute to the next. And then for television actresses, I love Edie Falco. I think she’s brilliant.
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